[D&D] Quarta Edizione!

[golem101]

Bon, ci siamo.



Io ho già scritto i miei commenti alla faccenda in un paio di forum 'mmerigani, non sto a riscrivere tutto adesso. Diciamo che dall'avvento della gestione Hasbro, la china che han preso è stata bruttina forte, fra powerplay, powercreep e l'odioso riferimento alle sminchiature obbligatorie.

Diciamo pure che se la possono anche tenere, e farò il grande passo solo se e quando sarò costretto (vedi alla voce Pathfinder, capitolo Paizo).

[Sarevok]

io ho paura che D&D vada sempre più verso le miniature, o, perchè no, si mescoli con qualche gioco di carte collezionabile. che so, gli incantesimi li vendono in bustine stile magic conoscendo la wizard non mi stupirei di nulla... detto questo torno a giocare a vampire e a GURPS

[golem101]

Altri dettagli (regole&supplementi, internet, gadgettame):
http://theminiaturespage.com/news/519193

No, no e no. Più ne sento parlare e meno mi piace.

[Sarevok]

"digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet " internet? io il gioco di ruolo l'ho sempre considerato il modo per incontrare amici e stare del tempo insieme a questo punto giochiamo a WoW (se penso a GURPS, 15 anni dalla 3a alla 4a edizione...)

[NerevarCB]

MAGGIO 2008????? Ma sono folli, dico? La 3.5 è appena uscita!

[NerevarCB]

Regolamento semplificato?? Ma che fine ha fatto Monte Cook?????

[golem101]

MAGGIO 2008????? Ma sono folli, dico? La 3.5 è appena uscita!

Welcome to the market.
Più che altro la 3.5 ha portato perlopiù powercreep, soprattutto negli ultimi supplementi. Il tanto sventolato bilanciamento delle regole è stato una bandiera effimera - e falsa in partenza, per quel che mi riguarda.

Regolamento semplificato?? Ma che fine ha fatto Monte Cook?????

Se ne è andato dalla WotC poco prima che uscisse la 3.5, pare proprio a causa delle scelte editoriali che erano state adottate dopo l'acquisizione da parte della Hasbro.

[Sarevok]

Regolamento semplificato?? Ma che fine ha fatto Monte Cook?????

il monte cucco sta scrivendo la sua personale visione del world of darkness, e dalle anteprime non mi attira per nulla

[il Mago di Ot]

Maledetti.
Possa un Dragolisque attaccarli nel sonno.

[Mr Yod]

Welcome to the market.
Più che altro la 3.5 ha portato perlopiù powercreep, soprattutto negli ultimi supplementi.

cos'è il powercreep?

Il tanto sventolato bilanciamento delle regole è stato una bandiera effimera - e falsa in partenza, per quel che mi riguarda.

diciamo che sono passati da un estremo all'altro

ma dico io, era tanto difficile una via di mezzo?
i maghi che da lanciamissili nucleari fantasy vengono ridimensionati a discapito dei chierici che diventano dei carri armati che fanno paura a terminator; gli psion che vengono resi un po' più lineari e senza tutte quelle differenze abissali con però la completa demolizione dello psicocineta che è diventato il mago invocatore degli psion con i poteri cinetici abbruttiti e massacrati senza riguardo per la convenzione di Ginevra ottenendo l'assurdità che maghi e stregoni sono cineti più dinamici di uno psicocineta...

e queste sono solo alcune delle cose, senza parlare dei manuali di espansione: una classe più powa dell'altra

e inoltre gli costava tanto rendere la difesa un qualcosa di più sensato e magari legato anche ad un'abilità giusto per non rendere d&d un gioco di bonus collezionabili solo per avere una CA decente e sensata?

[golem101]

cos'è il powercreep?

E' mutuato da giochi come Magic o lo stesso DDM skirmish, in cui i pezzi di livello paragonabile diventano sempre più potenti da un set all'altro, per mantenere l'interesse del mercato e spingere il giocatore a non fermarsi ad un certo punto - praticamente lo si costringe ad acquistare ogni nuova uscita per rimanere competitivo.

Se in un gioco collezionabile come i summenzionati ha un senso (il mercato è il mercato: non chiediamo la luna), in un GdR è al limite dell'insopportabile - nonché insensato.
In particolare lo trovo abbastanza evidente nelle PrC proposte negli ultimi supplementi, ma anche nei vari feat e in parecchie core classes alternative, in particolare quelle del Tome of Battle, del Player's Handbook II, e in alcune della serie Complete WTF.

Insomma non è solo a rischio poWWa (come qualsiasi altro sistema: la ricerca della combo numericamente più efficace c'è ovunque), ma c'è anche la tendenza al sempre più poWWa... pessimo.

[NerevarCB]

la 3.5 l'ho trovata certo più bilanciata della 3, sopratutto io che sn ranger... ... il ranger prima faceva proprio pena... cmq credo che per ora lo abbiamo solo sfiorato il poWWa, ma lo raggiungeremo presto...

[golem101]

Da EN World e altri posti:

Player's Handbook 4e: May 2008

Dungeon Master's Guide 4e: June 2008

Monster Manual 4e: July 2008

D&D Insider This is the "D&D Online" section of Gleemax; It contains a "Dungeon Master's Kit" that includes the following:
- dungeon builder (map tool)
- adventure builder
- PC generator
- other things
- "Character Generator"
- character sheets
- character visualizer
- "My Campaign"
- "My Character"
- "D&D Game Table"
- "Dungeon & Dragon Magazines"
- Open Gaming Licence
3rd party publishers will be able to get licenses to create 4e material from Wizards.
Fans will be able to publish material on Gleemax under (free) license from Wizards. (This material will be available to Wizards to republish; see discussion on Gleemax TOS).
The OGL/SRD/d20 Licenses will still exist - details still to come

Become a Dungeons & Dragons Insider and gain access to exclusive content designed specifically with D&D players in mind. As part of your monthly subscription, you gain access to features designed to enhance your D&D experience, including:

D&D Insider Magazine, online magazine with new content updated daily, including:

-Product Previews (articles showcasing upcoming D&D products)
-Class Features (articles expanding existing character class options and debuting new character and prestige classes)
-Strategy and Tactics (articles relating to D&D roleplaying combat and spellcasting, and to D&D Miniatures Skirmish play)
-Design and Development (articles and columns exploring the many facets of the D&D experience, written by game designers in D&D R&D)
-D&D Humor (comic strips devoted to the D&D experience)

D&D Product Enhancements (expanded content for D&D products you bought, including interactive content such as searchable indexes, extra features, behind the scenes articles, game designer and developer commentary, and more)

Exclusive Content that expands your favorite campaign world

-Eberron and Forgotten Realms ongoing content
-Interactive maps
-World events and adventure hooks

D&D University

-Rolling six-week course to help make you a better D&D player
-Course message boards
-Player tip of the week from D&D R&D

- MyCharacter.Com pages that you can design and populate, with a Premium Customization Kit that includes D&D art, frames, and icons
- Private Message Boards that give you a direct line to D&D R&D
- Premium RPGA Membership Card mailed to you
- Fast Lane Registration at all RPGA events (online and in the real world)
- The Magic Shop, a virtual shop where you can outfit your D&D character

D&D Character Builder, a program that helps you create and manage your D&D characters. This program allows you to create a character for any D&D game, walking you through the process of rolling the dice and assigning your game statistics, as well as creating a visual version of your character using "paper doll" models and "drag and click" selections of armor and weapons. At the end, you can save your character and print out a character sheet, as well as go to any D&D tournament and call up your character for use, or use the character at the Virtual Gaming Table (see below). With this package, you get to create and store up to 10 different characters or up to 10 different versions of one character (your character at different levels), or some combination of the two.

-Exclusive D&D-related novels and short stories written by your favorite authors
-Real-World D&D Search Engines (find D&D gamers, game stores, tournaments, and events in your area)
-In-Game D&D Search Engines (find feats, spells, magic items, and other D&D-related topics)

Digital Gaming Table, a program that allows you to play D&D using the Internet as your kitchen table, with a viewable play surface, dice rolling, virtual miniatures, and voice chat. Now you don't have to wait for your home gaming group to get together to play a game of D&D. You can still play your weekly face-to-face game, but now you can also play two or three more times a week by finding a game at the virtual table. Or, you might want to reconnect with your old gaming pals who long ago moved away-now you can all play together again on a regular basis! With this package, you get to play at the table 3 times per month.

I was at the press announcement last night (I work for an Indiana newspaper) and they very definitely said that 4e would fall under OGL and they would be releasing a new SRD. They very clearly expressed a desire for third parties to continue to produce D&D compatible material.

A 4e Forgotten Realms will be the first setting book released, and I believe that is scheduled for next August. Chris Perkins was pretty vague when I asked directly what they were going to do with Ravenloft, Dragonlance and Eberron. It seemed like the plan would be to roll out one new setting each year. He even teased me that Greyhawk could be one of those. But I think that was just because I admitted to being an old-school Greyhawk gamer.

Il peggio del peggio.

[Blade94]

Allora, dato che io capisco poco l' inglese, qualcuno può spiegarmi quello che sta succedendo, però in italiano?

[Mr.Black]

a me l'idea del tavolo 3d non dispiace mica...

[golem101]

Paga. Mensilmente.

[Mr.Black]

Paga. Mensilmente.

ah ah ah aHAAHAHAHHAHAHA HMHAUAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[golem101]

Altri dettagli di questo capolavoro di sterco fumante:

Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.

“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”

“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”

“He’s sword and board, man.”

“Longsword?”

“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”

“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”

The names and destinations of the powers mentioned above might have changed by the time the game is in your hands. What won’t change is that fighters care about which weapons they use much more than other characters. Other character classes have specific weapons and weapon types that they tend to rely on while still maintaining access to a larger chunk of the weapon chart. The fighter is the only current 4th Edition class with capabilities that depend on the weapon they have chosen to train the most with. Even at 1st level, a fighter who uses an axe has a different power selection than a fighter who relies on a flail or a rapier or a pick. In the long run, fighters can diversify and master powers related to a few different weapons, but most will opt to focus on the weapon that suits their personal style, helps their interactions with the rest of the PCs in the group, and carries all the magical oomph they’ve managed to acquire.

Many fighters will opt for swords. Swords have the most flexible assortment of powers. In a fighter’s hands, the longsword is the queen of the battlefield and the greatsword is the queen’s executioner. But each of the other significant melee weapons offers the fighter unique advantages and opportunities. For the first time, you’ll be able to say “I’m an axe fighter” or “I’m a flail fighter” and that will mean something cool.

Set the wayback machine to May of 2004!

Even at that point, we knew 4th Edition was coming, though official work on it wouldn’t start for another year. At the time, the design team used to meet regularly in what we jokingly called the “Design Cabal.” And one day, in May ’04, we started kicking around the question of how many slices of pie a D&D character should consist of, and how big each piece should be.

In 3rd Edition, class and magic items were two big pieces of the PC pie. Race was important at 1st level, but by the time you hit 20th, there was rarely much to distinguish a dwarf fighter from a half-orc fighter. The difference between a +2 here and a +2 over there was drowned out by the huge bonuses from magic items and character level—it didn’t matter any more.

We wanted race to matter all the way up through a character’s career. We wanted there to be some difference between two characters of different races, all other things being equal. We had tried out mechanics like the racial paragons in Unearthed Arcana and the racial substitution levels in the Races of . . . series of books, and we liked the results.

In May of 2004, we started kicking around ideas like “the 20-level race.” In a 20-level race, at each level you gained, you’d get not only new class features, but also new racial qualities. Your race might predetermine which ability scores you increased at some levels, so a dwarf’s Constitution would always have an edge over characters of other races. It would grant you new special abilities as you advanced in level, always appropriate to your level, of course.

One key advantage we saw to this system was that it made it much easier to find room for new races without resorting to the kludgy and awkward mechanic of level adjustments. If we spread the tasty magical abilities of drow out through their levels, they could start at 1st level on a par with other character races. Races like the githyanki already anticipated some of that idea by granting new spell-like abilities at higher levels.

Well, over the next few years, things changed, as things are wont to do. We blew the game out to thirty levels, but put your most significant racial choices in the first ten. Above that, other choices started to crowd out room for special abilities coming from your race.

In the final version of 4th Edition, most of your racial traits come into play right out of the gate at 1st level—dwarven resilience, elven evasion, a half-elf’s inspiring presence, and so on. As you go up levels, you can take racial feats to make those abilities even more exciting and gain new capabilities tied to your race. You can also take race-specific powers built into your class, which accomplish a lot of what racial substitution levels used to do: a dwarf fighter with the friend of earth power can do something that other 10th-level fighters just can’t do.

The rules have changed a lot since that first idea of the 20-level race, but they still serve the same purpose: to make sure that your race stays not just relevant but actually important all the way up through thirty levels of adventure.

June 28th, Thursday Night, Wizards Conference Room (Wayne Manor).
Campaign Arc: Castle Smoulderthorn
DM: Dave Noonan
Players: Bruce Cordell (yours truly), Richard Baker, Logan Bonner, and Toby Latin

Before we begin play, another player is giving Rich grief about one of Rich’s character’s abilities that grants the rest of us a blanket +2 to saves; it just ain’t sexy. Rich says something like, “I don’t know, I doubt I’ll use it that much, but who knows, maybe everyone in the party will get entangled.”

Sure enough, not 10 minutes later this fire-crazed flame priest has entangled half the party with fire snakes! Rich throws up his +2 to saves and, voila, at least two of us get free immediately. I guess that power isn’t so corner case after all.

In my case, I’ve thrown together a “psion.” It’s because prior to the shift to the new playtest rules, I was playing a psion elan named Infandous. You wonder, why the scare quotes? Well, just between you and me, updated-Infandous-the-psion is actually a wizard with the serial numbers filed off.

Anyhow, I missed the last few sessions, so I’m slightly confused when the session begins—apparently the group is still breathing hard from their last session, not even rested or healed, when we hear a shuffle of footsteps from behind a set of double doors. The doors aren’t completely closed, so I “mentally” whip them open from across the room.

Coming down the hallway is a troop of azer, some sort of burning serpent, and the flame priest I mentioned earlier. And it was a fight! And . . . we won. Without really breaking a sweat, either, truth be told.

Emboldened, we advanced down that hallway now littered with azer remains and ash, took a right, and pretty quickly found a dusty lintel inscribed with the words: Tomb of the Black Host.

“Sounds like someplace loot is stored,” said Infandous, eager to expand his repertoire of cool equipment. A little more discussion, and we pushed on the door. It opened . . .

And Dave spent nearly 10 minutes constructing (using Dungeon Tiles!) an ominous, crypt-lined ruin complete with three golden sarcophagi that emanated magic. Dave did a good job laying out the floor plan of the room. Such a good job that we lingered in the door looking into the shadow-lined mausoleum for a minute, then, another . . . then decided as a group that, loot or no loot, perhaps it would be better to let whatever lay in the deathly quite of the tomb alone. So, we closed the door and continued down the main hallway.

The 4th Edition announcement event has just finished. It took place in a massive ballroom filled with hundreds of people. A large screen flashed images and videos; full-size models of a beholder and a troll decorated the floor before the stage. The event was presented by Bill Slavicsek and Chris Perkins.

1) History of the editions video - 1e, 2e, 3e and then 4e. A comical video looking at the improvements over the years, finishing wih 4E presented as a 21st Century hi-tech combination of digital media and physical product. Also, jokes were made of clunky rules, such as the grappling rules - to which we are assured, we can say goodbye!

2) Covers revealed for the core rules - the covers of the PHB, MM and DMG were revealed. The MM shows Orcus (in my earlier meeting, I was told that the MM would range from CR 1-30 critters). THe DMG had a dragon fighting an adventuring party on it.

3) Character advancement is meaningful at each level - touched on earlier, each level will provide new abilities and challenges.

4) High level play as fun and meaningful as low level - and as easy to run. The "sweet point" concept was reiterated, illustrated as levels 7-14. This is the game experience that the whole game should be providing.

5) Resource Management overhauled - the game will keep going even when the caster
is out of spells, or when the cleric has run out of healing.

6) Monster roles are being redefined - DM will have easier time finding right monster for the right job. Statblocks are simplified.

7) Four parts to 4E - physical product (core rules, adventures, supplements, tiles, miniatures); Organized Play (Living Campaigns, convention play, special events, connecting players and DMs in new ways); Community (Gleemax.com, a suite of social ntworking tools, ways for players to communicate with each other and with WotC, organise characters); Digital Offerings (DND Insider: collection of online tools for DMs, character creation, editorial game content, online expanded content for books, behind the scenes content for books, designer commentaries -much of this was analogous to the second disc in a DVD box set: every physical product will have a code which can be entered into D&D Insider which will
unlock the product's digital version for you online, along with extra content).

Dragon/Dungeon - Online content will be added every few days (Dragon and Dungeon content), and colated into monthly issues.

9) Digital tabletop - a wireframe of a dragon was shown, an online dice roller (very pretty) , the ability to use purchased digital tiles or to draw on the tabletop. It's not a game, just a toolbox - you still provide the DM, the players and the adventure.

10) DNDInsider.com was apparently set to go live right after the announcement. It will be live in preview form. It's not available as I type this, but it's worth checking periodically.

The very first thing they said to me was that the core rulebooks will span levels 1-30. Not only that, but those levels are supposed to extend the "sweet spot" of D&D, which WotC guesstimated at currently being levels 4-14ish. They have also tried to ensure that every class gets something new and exciting at every level. They did not list the core classes (although indicated that psionics will be supplementary, and not core), and they pointed to the front cover for the 4e PHB where is referred to (if I recall correctly), where it says "Arcane, divine and martial characters". I asked about the Rogue, and was told that the Rogue is a "martial character".

They spoke also of character "roles", and about how different classes would have different roles more explicitly predefined than at present. Continuing the concept of every class receiving cool new stuff at each level I asked if this meant that they were spreading the magic around more than at present; their response was "yes, to an extent", but that, for example, the Fighter would have maneuvers and so forth.

The release schedule is as follows: in April 2008, a quick-start adventure called "Adventure H1: Keep on the Shadowfell" will be released. This will include pregenerated characters. May 2008 sees the 4th Edition Player's Handbook and Character Record Sheet, June 2008 sees the Monster Manual, and July 2008 brings us the Dungeon Master's Guide and DM's Screen.

On magic, they touched briefly on the PHB containing various "power sources", expanding the concept of arcane and divine sources.

The look of 4th Edition, they said, would be much less"textbook" and much more "magazine"; they felt this would be friendlier, clearer and more accessible. Expect to see a higher reliance on images and diagrams.

You've already heard about dndinsider.com, which is due to go live soon. This i their digital content. I saw examples of the Dragon and Dungeon pages (it looked a lot like the magazines). The intention is to provide subscriber services alongside the current free content, although some free content will move over.

The whole digitial thing is heavily linked in to the physical product line. They empasized that they were marrying to two together. D&D books will have a code in them which, when entered into the online service, will provide digital access to that content. The digital game table was a large part of the conversation, with screenshots on how you generat a character online using the physical books you own, customize its appearance, and then generate a "virtual miniature" for use in the online game experience. The online game is tool, not a game in itself - a mapping system with battlemaps, generators and so forth, all run by a DM. I saw a few screenshots, showing overhead and isometric views, and virtual miniatures including a PC and a green dragon.

Regarding the OGL and the d20 System - both will continue to be actively supported. There WILL be a 4th Edition SRD; some publishers will get access to it early, just like with the 3 rollout.

WoW.

Non nel senso dell'esclamazione.

[golem101]

ah ah ah aHAAHAHAHHAHAHA HMHAUAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Beh, l'abbonamento a D&D insider costa 9.95 US $ mensili, con la possibilità di usare per 3 (tre) volte il collegamento live, registrare fino a 10 account... ehm personaggi nel sistema di "vestizione", e ottenere nuovo equipaggiamento esclusivo... insomma, si paga. Circa 120 US $ all'anno.
Sono ovviamente esclusi i contenuti di Dragon e Dungeon nuova incarnazione - di cui è stato annunciato il contenuto dei primi mesi: stranamente sono articoli degli stessi autori della ex-gestione Paizo.

[Blade94]

Qualcuno mi spiega qualcosa in italiano?

Non ci sto capendo niente

[SaTaN SHaRK]

Da Buon DM Ufficiale Tesserato (ma ai quali non dicono mai niente, figuratevi che stamattina il mio Capomaster l'ho risvegliato in maniera tremenda!) posso dirvi un po' di info.
Innanzitutto è stato scongiurato il pericolo peggiore, l'introduzione del d30 a sostituire il d20.
Le miniature per il piacere di Sarevok dovrebbero essere OBBLIGATORIE e le loro dimensioni aumentate del 50% per consentire l'inserimento di contatori come in Heroclix. Sempre a detta degli sviluppatori il combattimento dovrebbe essere ancora più semplificato (come se già non lo fosse), probabilmente ridimensionando le varie Abilità.
Continuando ad affondare le mani nel comunicato stampa della Hasbro da cui ho appreso queste notizie dovrebbero essere aggiunte 3 nuove classi base all'epoca chiamate: Saggio, Alchimista e Prestigiatore.
Secondo la Hasbro questa quarta edizione sarebbe dovuta uscire nientemeno che entro la fine dello scorso anno (fine autunno), scontrandosi con l'idea della Wizards che lo aveva annunciato per Aprile 2011. Si è quindi giunto ad una via di mezzo Maggio 2008.
Prima di questa data verranno pubblicati degli starter set Demo (composti da estratti di manuale, miniature e forse i dadi) a Dicembre e Gennaio, mentre a Febbraio sarà giocata la prima Avventura Dimostrativa.
Le uscite dei manuali previste sono Maggio, Giugno e Luglio rispettivamente per i manuali del Giocatore, Master e Mostri.
In questo anno di tempo molte cose potranno cambiare, come è stata presentata questa versione quasi all'improvviso proprio di un venerdì 17 tanto caro a noi Italiani!!

P.S. Golem puoi passarmi in un messaggio privato i Link da cui hai preso le notizie nel tuo reply #18??? Grazie.

[golem101]

[Mr Yod]

d30?!?
ma che sfera è?

già il mio d20 fa una fatica immane a fermarsi (una volta uno castò fermare il tempo nella realtà e il mio dado continuava a rotolare ugualmente ), con un d30 ogni mio turno duererebbe dai 4 ai 5 anni

[golem101]

Vabbè dai, è una delle bubbole che girano da anni, assieme al fantomatico d24... non mi dite che ci cascate...


Shark, il materiale quotato nel mio post di cui sopra è preso da vari thread su EN World e dai forum della Paizo (pagine 10 e 11).
PS: sono un tesserato RPGA anch'io (#29887785) e non mi è mai stato comunicato un sonoro ***** di niente.

[il Mago di Ot]

Non è vero! Mi state prendendo per il c.lo!
Non è possibile che il mio gdr preferito diventi questo enorme, immenso, cumulo di rifiuti.

Resta solo una cosa da dire a quei giocattolai:
Avete ucciso d&d brutti bastardi!



Edit: Non so da dove iniziare a lamentarmi... Anzi lo so

Eberron and Forgotten Realms ongoing content

Ci sono solo queste due ambientazioni? No dico, e tutte quelle meraviglie come Dark Sun o Ravenloft? E io che speravo che prima o poi tornassero ad essere supportate...